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TOV Forums > Civic > > Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic

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TSX69
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Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 08:27
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Honda Hurries to Redo Civic
Because of the chilly reception this year for its redesigned Civic, which was universally panned for its cheap, hard-plastic instrument panel and center console, Honda is moving more quickly than planned on some mid-cycle changes.

"We take feedback seriously, regardless of who it's from, and we will act accordingly quickly,"
John Mendel, American Honda executive vice president, said in an interview.

The mid-cycle update normally would occur in spring 2014. But Mendel said the change could occur sometime in 2013.
Steve
Profile for Steve
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 08:58
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Honda stop blaming the earthquake! The Civic is the real crap storm. If Honda really listened to us, this car would never have been conceived. They tried to slip one over on us and they got caught. There is no excuse for this blunder and those responsible should be among the unemployed. To slap this atrocity together and expect that it would be embraced shows how out of touch Honda has become. Because I have owned may Honda's and was looking forward to the new Civic, I will remain a staunch critic until they redeem themselves with a car worthy of the Civic nameplate!
superchg
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Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 09:10
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Steve wrote:
The Civic is the real crap storm.

It sounds like Honda is trying to polish the proverbial turd!


Waldo
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Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 13:25
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"Honda was in the midst of redesigning the Civic when the global economy imploded in 2009. Honda Motor Co. CEO Takanobu Ito stopped the redesign in its tracks, approved shortening the wheelbase and reducing content to appeal to budget-conscious consumers."

This statement perhaps reveals what is wrong with Honda now. In a word: Ito. If even for a moment he thought that the right way to respond to a weak financial market was to cheapen Honda's core product, then he has no idea of what brought about Honda's decades of respect and success.

The Civic is the origin of Honda's DNA. You don't mess with the DNA. That's how you create mutants.

While I'm not a fan of falling on swords, the symbolism of Ito's early and hasty retirement would be welcome. Nothing else could more effectively show the world that Honda will correct it's problems.

Mr. Taggart
Profile for Mr. Taggart
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 14:11
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What Ito said but was not quoted was."Hey the economy is in the crapper so lets take what you American guys did with the Civic and turn it into an Acura!"

What a joke. You know what the best car is for a budget shopping consumer? A two or three year old Honda!
typer_801
Profile for typer_801
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 14:46
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You're right...Ito is the problem and needs to go. What do you do in a global downturn when you're competitors are going bankrupt. You double-down on R&D and start cranking out new products so when the fog lifts you catapult out in front on your competitors.

What did Honda do.....cut back. Cancel the NSX, fail to replace the s2000, delay one of your core products and decontent (Civic). The exact opposite of what they should have done.


Powertrains are still behind (particularly hybrids and auto transmissions). No DCT's, what ever happened to A-VTEC? A serious of disappointments.

The CRV and Accord FMC's will be very telling to see if it's a systemic issue or they've righted the ship and are headed back in teh right direction. My gut tells me, there's still rough waters ahead.

Waldo wrote:
"Honda was in the midst of redesigning the Civic when the global economy imploded in 2009. Honda Motor Co. CEO Takanobu Ito stopped the redesign in its tracks, approved shortening the wheelbase and reducing content to appeal to budget-conscious consumers."

This statement perhaps reveals what is wrong with Honda now. In a word: Ito. If even for a moment he thought that the right way to respond to a weak financial market was to cheapen Honda's core product, then he has no idea of what brought about Honda's decades of respect and success.

The Civic is the origin of Honda's DNA. You don't mess with the DNA. That's how you create mutants.

While I'm not a fan of falling on swords, the symbolism of Ito's early and hasty retirement would be welcome. Nothing else could more effectively show the world that Honda will correct it's problems.



DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 16:43
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Yes, but Ito will not be the fall guy, and I predict it is going to Mendel for sure.

The more I dig back and read statements he has made, I am starting to see a trend where he is basically having to step forward as the meat shield for all of this.

They need to do something with Ito, and quick.
MalcolmR
Profile for MalcolmR
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 18:37
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.
Doesn't the current rot go back to the time of Honda's Dream F1 car? In my opinion, Honda replaced racing with faulty marketing. (previous CEO)

Then with Ito it decided to go green for the sake of being seen to be going green rather than continue with its inbuilt focus and passion for efficiency.

Previously Honda let its products do its marketing. Because its products were sound.

Now, although it manufactures well-built products, some do not seem consistent with Honda's philosophy. Honda built useful cars that were a joy to own and high in value. To achieve that, Honda innovated and led.

Now its focus seems diluted with dreams of attracting greenies and media not real-world customers.

Need to return to Honda's basics. Leave the BS and hype to Toyota marketing. Instead get back to serving the customer with highest quality and high value while being responsible toward the planet, using solid engineering guided by Honda's 3-Joys philosophy aligned with financial conservatism.

Malcolm

:)
HondaJet
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Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 18:44
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Just wondering if any of you guys are HMC stockholders? That would be the best way to voice your opinion, with a vote. For the hardcore Honda fans, it's time to take the next step.
HONDA AFVM
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Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 18:47
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Steve wrote:
Honda stop blaming the earthquake! The Civic is the real crap storm. If Honda really listened to us, this car would never have been conceived. They tried to slip one over on us and they got caught. There is no excuse for this blunder and those responsible should be among the unemployed. To slap this atrocity together and expect that it would be embraced shows how out of touch Honda has become. Because I have owned may Honda's and was looking forward to the new Civic, I will remain a staunch critic until they redeem themselves with a car worthy of the Civic nameplate!


Your wording........LOL!, I am going to give you a sword and shield.......maybe even a horse........
Bullwinkle
Profile for Bullwinkle
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 19:18
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I don't think Mendel is the problem.

The problem is that the decision to cut back was made in Japan, which assumed that the 2008 downturn in the US would make the initial new design Civic too big and two expensive, so they overruled the Americans who told the Japanese that the market would bounce back.

What we got was a rushed, de-contented Civic.

The GOOD NEWS in all of this is the announcement recently that product development all over the world would be done more locally, instead of globally. That should give Mendel the authority to redesign the Civic on his own.

I work for a Japanese conglomerate, and after talking to some of my Japanese colleagues who are also Honda-philes, this is what we expect:

1) New Entry-level Acura will be introduced soon and will be upmarket version of what the Americans wanted the 2012 Civic to be.

2) Shortly thereafter, current civic will be SCRAPPED in favor of a Honda version of the entry level Acura.

There is precedent for this:

In the mid 1990s, the American Accord/TL split from the Global Accord platform, and remains split to this day. This has resulted in the most successful and profitable line of cars in American Honda's History.

In 1999, American Honda split the US Odyssey from the Global Odyssey. This US truck platform resulted in development in the US of the Odyssey, Pilot, MDX series of highly successful and profitable products, as well as the Ridgeline and ZDX which were, well ... less so.

If there were a time to repeat the feat, it would be now after a dictate from Japan resulted in a business disaster. May have Given Mendel the ammunition he needs.

At least I hope so.

HONDA AFVM
Profile for HONDA AFVM
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 20:01
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Bullwinkle wrote:
I don't think Mendel is the problem.

The problem is that the decision to cut back was made in Japan, which assumed that the 2008 downturn in the US would make the initial new design Civic too big and two expensive, so they overruled the Americans who told the Japanese that the market would bounce back.

What we got was a rushed, de-contented Civic.

The GOOD NEWS in all of this is the announcement recently that product development all over the world would be done more locally, instead of globally. That should give Mendel the authority to redesign the Civic on his own.

I work for a Japanese conglomerate, and after talking to some of my Japanese colleagues who are also Honda-philes, this is what we expect:

1) New Entry-level Acura will be introduced soon and will be upmarket version of what the Americans wanted the 2012 Civic to be.

2) Shortly thereafter, current civic will be SCRAPPED in favor of a Honda version of the entry level Acura.

There is precedent for this:

In the mid 1990s, the American Accord/TL split from the Global Accord platform, and remains split to this day. This has resulted in the most successful and profitable line of cars in American Honda's History.

In 1999, American Honda split the US Odyssey from the Global Odyssey. This US truck platform resulted in development in the US of the Odyssey, Pilot, MDX series of highly successful and profitable products, as well as the Ridgeline and ZDX which were, well ... less so.

If there were a time to repeat the feat, it would be now after a dictate from Japan resulted in a business disaster. May have Given Mendel the ammunition he needs.

At least I hope so.



BUT........How much power does Mandel really have, that is the question........can he walk into the design studio and say, "Put Projector beams on this Civic and have them on there by MY 2013 or all your heads are going to roll" I don't think so........My source leads me to believe that Mendal has power, but can't really make changes swift and clean.........which he should be able to with in reason........He is more of a face then a leader.........

The changes being made to the civic will be interior for the most part, nothing really to the out side. Who knows really they did what they did, in their eyes thy might have had so much focus on the iMid that they just neglected to see the results of the rest of the car......The 12 Civic really is a nice car. None of my many customers have complained a bit........They upload their pictures, have their iPhones playing.......they are in LaLa land. Most haven't even noticed the plastic unless it is pointed out to them shopping another brand, the Chevy and Hyundai guys are SURE to point it out.........My counter is........SIT IN THE BACK SEAT.........and the case is closed, here Mr & Mrs Customer, your keys to your new Civic.........
DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 20:07
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Actually, I think Mendel has very little power and has been reduced to a talking puppet by Ito. He might be able to choose the brand of coffee they have in the office, but I think it ends there.

Make no mistake about it...Honda is run in and by Japan.
Power Of Dreams
Profile for Power Of Dreams
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 21:49
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I think part of the problem too is that the Civic is not sold in Japan and is not a world car for the first time in history.

Everybody thinks that Americans want stupid compact cars like the Escort and the Cavalier, the fact that the Civic had to satisfy demanding Japanese, European and Australian customers as well made it good.

I have a bias against Japanese cars that are not sold in Japan, such as the Altima, the Galant and the Avalon. I figure if they're not good enough to be sold in Japan, why would I want one? The only exception was the TL which was very Japanese in its execution.
Power Of Dreams
Profile for Power Of Dreams
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 21:59
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Waldo wrote:
"Honda was in the midst of redesigning the Civic when the global economy imploded in 2009. Honda Motor Co. CEO Takanobu Ito stopped the redesign in its tracks, approved shortening the wheelbase and reducing content to appeal to budget-conscious consumers."

This statement perhaps reveals what is wrong with Honda now. In a word: Ito. If even for a moment he thought that the right way to respond to a weak financial market was to cheapen Honda's core product, then he has no idea of what brought about Honda's decades of respect and success.

The Civic is the origin of Honda's DNA. You don't mess with the DNA. That's how you create mutants.

While I'm not a fan of falling on swords, the symbolism of Ito's early and hasty retirement would be welcome. Nothing else could more effectively show the world that Honda will correct it's problems.




They need to put Hirotoshi Honda in charge. Or if they are looking for a true revolution, appoint Erik Berkman as the CEO (the engineer behind the 2004 TL, 2006 Si, old-school Honda owner)
Bullwinkle
Profile for Bullwinkle
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 23:38
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Power Of Dreams wrote:
I have a bias against Japanese cars that are not sold in Japan, such as the Altima, the Galant and the Avalon. I figure if they're not good enough to be sold in Japan, why would I want one? The only exception was the TL which was very Japanese in its execution.


Bias against Japanese Cars not sold in Japan? The best selling most-popular most-profitable Hondas are NOT sold in Japan.

You ever drive an MDX? Or a Pilot? Even the Odyssey? Those are great vehicles by any standard. THey win comparisons left and right, sell well and make lots and lots of money.

The US Accord-TL is not sold in Japan in significant numbers and is almost completely an American project.

Same with the Odyssey, Pilot, MDX family. All fine vehicles, none practical in any way for Japan.

In fact, I would guess that most of American Honda's profit comes from sales of those US-Designed vehicles.

Why aren't they sold in Japan? Because they don't fit, literally and figuratively.

You think Japan ordered those vehicles be built for the American market. You think the development of those cars, particularly the Odyssey-Pilot-MDX, was directed from Japan where they would not know what to do with an Odyssey or MDX?

Mendel can do more than you think he can. His marching orders are to make money, any way he can.
auto_enthu
Profile for auto_enthu
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2011 23:43
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Dear Ito, how the heck will the cheapened civic appeal to the customers, when they don't see the price reduction (to accept lower quality) nor higher value for the same price.


Looks like Ito only tried to improve Honda's financial bottomline, by trying to convince his folks that he is trying to appeal to budget conscious customers. Budget conscious customers does not necessarily accept low quality especially from Honda. Ito had no idea how many customers he is going to loose because of this approach.

Looks like, Ito totally missed that point that it is the same higher quality that made civic stand-out among the competition, that Ito compromised on.

Never compromise on what made you survive.

Ito was either intentionally taking a big risk (stupidly ignoring that competition was upping their quality)
OR
he had no idea what made Honda products appeal to its loyal customers.

Anyway, its good that Honda is trying to fix civic, although nothing can reverse the damage already done.
The fix they are trying to do MUST be outstanding, and should not be yet-another half-good fix, to provide a strong message to buyers.

Powered by Honda
Profile for Powered by Honda
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-01-2011 00:59
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TSX69 wrote:
Honda Hurries to Redo Civic
Because of the chilly reception this year for its redesigned Civic, which was universally panned for its cheap, hard-plastic instrument panel and center console, Honda is moving more quickly than planned on some mid-cycle changes.

"We take feedback seriously, regardless of who it's from, and we will act accordingly quickly,"
John Mendel, American Honda executive vice president, said in an interview.

The mid-cycle update normally would occur in spring 2014. But Mendel said the change could occur sometime in 2013.




Translation to John Mendels quotes are here:


"We tried our best to sell the public a watered down, cheaper built civic then the previous generation because we all wanted bigger bonus's in our corporate packages this Christmas so we can go out and buy ourselves some new bimmers and audis!!!"


More translations:

"We got caught, we thought we could ride the Honda name 5 more years as we have been doing the last 10! It seems people begin to notice after 1 DECADE of crap"



Glad Honda admitted these things. Although they said it in code it was easy to decipher.

Mark my words Honda will be buy-able in 10 more years. A quick turnaround for sure and a true testament to how good honda can be!!!! Look how long it took gm to become buyable again. 20 years?
Powered by Honda
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Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-01-2011 01:04
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Future Wiki article under Ito's name:

"the man who destroyed honda's soul" Ito!


If this continues. Fire that idiot he doesn't know anything about us enthusiasts who built Hondas rep and made them what they are today. Well not today...they aren't good today. lol made them what they are yesteryear.
Power Of Dreams
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Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-01-2011 01:18
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Bullwinkle wrote:
Power Of Dreams wrote:
I have a bias against Japanese cars that are not sold in Japan, such as the Altima, the Galant and the Avalon. I figure if they're not good enough to be sold in Japan, why would I want one? The only exception was the TL which was very Japanese in its execution.


Bias against Japanese Cars not sold in Japan? The best selling most-popular most-profitable Hondas are NOT sold in Japan.

You ever drive an MDX? Or a Pilot? Even the Odyssey? Those are great vehicles by any standard. THey win comparisons left and right, sell well and make lots and lots of money.

The US Accord-TL is not sold in Japan in significant numbers and is almost completely an American project.

Same with the Odyssey, Pilot, MDX family. All fine vehicles, none practical in any way for Japan.

In fact, I would guess that most of American Honda's profit comes from sales of those US-Designed vehicles.

Why aren't they sold in Japan? Because they don't fit, literally and figuratively.

You think Japan ordered those vehicles be built for the American market. You think the development of those cars, particularly the Odyssey-Pilot-MDX, was directed from Japan where they would not know what to do with an Odyssey or MDX?

Mendel can do more than you think he can. His marching orders are to make money, any way he can.



Man, you really need to chill out. By the way, I specified cars and not trucks or vans.

The MDX and Odyssey were sold in Japan at one point. The Odyssey and the Elysion are very similar. And I drove a Pilot once, wouldn't say it was great but that's beside the point.

As for the Accord, Jeff said it best when he criticized Honda for blending their Camry and Avalon fighters into one car. Since all rumors have the TSX and Accord merging back into one (thankfully), they're going to a more Japanese formula.

Most US-exclusive Japanese cars suffer from either being overengined and underchassised, being oversized and built cheaper than Japanese-designed and built world vehicles.

The Accord sedan feels like a Buick Regal and the coupe feels like a Chevrolet Monte Carlo to me. At least the TSX and Fit feel like a Honda should.

Anyways, look at the following cars designed for North America by Japanese automakers that have no counterpart in Japan:

Mitsubishi Galant
Nissan Altima
Honda Accord Coupe
Mazda6 (North America)
Subaru Tribeca
New Civic
Toyota Solara

None of those cars are particularly great when compared to their predecessors that were Japanese designed and engineered or to other vehicles made by the same company that are either global cars/sold in Japan.

The TL is not sold in Japan at all. However, the execution of the third-generation TL at least, was very Japanese, arguably moreso than its Japanese-built rival, the G35. The rest are either overengined boats with limp handling

And instead of telling me that Mendel will do more than control Honda's marketing efforts, show me a link or any kind of evidence. He saw this coming from ten miles away and I'm sure part of the Civic's problems comes from Mendel's indoctrination in the culture of piling junk high and selling it cheap from his beginnings at Ford.

The old Honda would have had Erik Berkman running the show (TL engineer and HFP CEO), not this marketing clown.
auto_enthu
Profile for auto_enthu
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-01-2011 01:24
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Powered by Honda wrote:
TSX69 wrote:
Honda Hurries to Redo Civic
Because of the chilly reception this year for its redesigned Civic, which was universally panned for its cheap, hard-plastic instrument panel and center console, Honda is moving more quickly than planned on some mid-cycle changes.

"We take feedback seriously, regardless of who it's from, and we will act accordingly quickly,"
John Mendel, American Honda executive vice president, said in an interview.

The mid-cycle update normally would occur in spring 2014. But Mendel said the change could occur sometime in 2013.




Translation to John Mendels quotes are here:


"We tried our best to sell the public a watered down, cheaper built civic then the previous generation because we all wanted bigger bonus's in our corporate packages this Christmas so we can go out and buy ourselves some new bimmers and audis!!!"


More translations:

"We got caught, we thought we could ride the Honda name 5 more years as we have been doing the last 10! It seems people begin to notice after 1 DECADE of crap"



Glad Honda admitted these things. Although they said it in code it was easy to decipher.

Mark my words Honda will be buy-able in 10 more years. A quick turnaround for sure and a true testament to how good honda can be!!!! Look how long it took gm to become buyable again. 20 years?




well said :-)

However, Honda becoming "buy-able" in 10 years won't be enough. They should do so faster.

Look at Toyata, how fast they are learning... 2011 Sienna and 2012 Camry are good examples (see how well they improved the driving dynamics - that toyota has been inherently bad at - to the extent that nobody can make negative comments on their handling).

Talking about handling, the biggest problem with 2012 civic (besides cheapened interior) is that Honda has made 2012 civic in such a way that neither it handling nor its ride are among its best aspects. They have compromised both ride and handling to produce a ride+handling combination that was'nt acceptable to anybody.

Car buyers have always accepted trade-offs.
People won't mind a bit of noise when handling is excellent (eg. previous gen civic).
Similarly, they won't mind bad handling when the ride is smooth/quite (eg. entire Toyota line-up).

2012 civic was neither great at handling nor great at ride. This single issue, I think, has made so many people get pissed-off with civic.

I think Honda mis-interpreted the previous civic owners complaints about NVH, that they would be ok with compromised handling. Honda was wrong. Everyone expects honda cars' handling to be top-notch... nothing less. PERIOD.

Honda must improve the ride in its cars WITHOUT compromising handling.


DCR
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Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-01-2011 02:08
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I've got to admit that my 2009 Accord Coupe 6MT did not feel like a Honda to me. When I went back to an Si, I felt much more at home.
PGH
Profile for PGH
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-01-2011 08:19
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I think they can only tweak it for now. I doubt Honda will change the car that much. What happens to the thousands of people who have purchased this car and will buy it before the re-do? I can see peoples reaction- The first one was a POS but this one is better.............

I think they will tweak the interior and improve the ride a little and maybe give us a early FMC if they are smart
DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-01-2011 09:28
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This is business, and Mendel already said that they care what CR thinks, so you can bet they aren't going to shed a tear for the 9th Gen owners that already purchased. It all comes down to reputation, and though it is clear they don't give a shit about the enthusiast, it is crystal clear they care about toaster shoppers, so they are going to do whatever it takes to turn that ship.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-01-2011 12:11
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Can Honda make a better toaster than Dualit? Now that's a more exciting topic.
Mr. Taggart
Profile for Mr. Taggart
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-01-2011 13:22
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HondaJet wrote:
Just wondering if any of you guys are HMC stockholders? That would be the best way to voice your opinion, with a vote. For the hardcore Honda fans, it's time to take the next step.



I was, and Honda is one of only two individual stocks I held based purely on company business plan and commitment to employees. Sold all of my ADS's when Ito announced the green push and having to replace the dash on my '04 TL that cracked. Took it in the shorts, but felt the current products and strategic plan would not generate any higher pricing than what was already in the market.

I also passed up on buying another Oddy Touring which would of been my second Oddy purchase in four years.
superchg
Profile for superchg
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-01-2011 14:51
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Mr. Taggart wrote:
HondaJet wrote:
Just wondering if any of you guys are HMC stockholders? That would be the best way to voice your opinion, with a vote. For the hardcore Honda fans, it's time to take the next step.



I was, and Honda is one of only two individual stocks I held based purely on company business plan and commitment to employees. Sold all of my ADS's when Ito announced the green push and having to replace the dash on my '04 TL that cracked. Took it in the shorts, but felt the current products and strategic plan would not generate any higher pricing than what was already in the market.

I also passed up on buying another Oddy Touring which would of been my second Oddy purchase in four years.


What did you buy, instead?
lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-01-2011 17:12
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auto_enthu wrote:

Dear Ito, how the heck will the cheapened civic appeal to the customers, when they don't see the price reduction (to accept lower quality) nor higher value for the same price.


Looks like Ito only tried to improve Honda's financial bottomline, by trying to convince his folks that he is trying to appeal to budget conscious customers. Budget conscious customers does not necessarily accept low quality especially from Honda. Ito had no idea how many customers he is going to loose because of this approach.

Looks like, Ito totally missed that point that it is the same higher quality that made civic stand-out among the competition, that Ito compromised on.

Never compromise on what made you survive.

Ito was either intentionally taking a big risk (stupidly ignoring that competition was upping their quality)
OR
he had no idea what made Honda products appeal to its loyal customers.

Anyway, its good that Honda is trying to fix civic, although nothing can reverse the damage already done.
The fix they are trying to do MUST be outstanding, and should not be yet-another half-good fix, to provide a strong message to buyers.




Ito is the worst thing that could happen to Honda and could do irreparable damage if he continues with his "smart" green, eco cost cut downmarket vision for Honda and Acura. He has made so many blunders I am surprised he has not been asked to step down. It is not just enthusiasts who are angry with his leadership, direction, and vision for Honda, regular customers are not all that impressed with many vehicles and either holding to their current Honda's or going to other brands.

The Insight, CRZ, Crosstour, ZDX have been duds. The RDX is struggling. The Ridgeline and Element barely sell. The RL has languished too long with out a proper flagship replacement. Many are not happy with the Acura beaks. The civic is getting heavily criticized and they are having to hurry a band aid. Ito has killed the ASC, rwd, and almost everything luxurious/performance oriented for Acura and Honda so they will have nothing if/when the economy gets better to offer customers who are looking for more upscale offerings. Technology and advancement have seen to stalled at Honda over the past few years. How many more blunders and bad decisions is it going to take until something serious is done about Ito unless Honda is now just run by beancounters who only care about short term profits and they like Ito's cost cutting and killing off more advanced vehicles.

Maybe Honda/Acura enthusiast sites getting together and sending a letter to Honda with signatures or some kind of confirmation from members saying how disappointed we are with the leadership, products, and direction of Honda under Ito could help get the message out before Honda's legacy and lineup is totally ruined.
Mr. Taggart
Profile for Mr. Taggart
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-01-2011 18:06
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superchg wrote:
Mr. Taggart wrote:
HondaJet wrote:
Just wondering if any of you guys are HMC stockholders? That would be the best way to voice your opinion, with a vote. For the hardcore Honda fans, it's time to take the next step.



I was, and Honda is one of only two individual stocks I held based purely on company business plan and commitment to employees. Sold all of my ADS's when Ito announced the green push and having to replace the dash on my '04 TL that cracked. Took it in the shorts, but felt the current products and strategic plan would not generate any higher pricing than what was already in the market.

I also passed up on buying another Oddy Touring which would of been my second Oddy purchase in four years.


What did you buy, instead?




Buying a Volvo XC90 w/ a V8. Two years old so smaller depreciation hit and with 7yr/100k warranty which is still substantially cheaper than the Oddy.

Wife did not want another van in the driveway that was comparatively cheaper built than the '08. She liked the xeon's and additional tech but the interior felt and looked cheaper. Example is the seats which have thinner and less surfaces with leather. Look where the hinges of the seats are. In the prior generation the leather seating is over the entire seat even where it meats the hinge. Now it is fabric sections sewn into the leather and is very noticeable, especially when you open the power doors. No soft touch plastics and in the storage bins in back the plastics are so rough you can actually get a cut from the edges, which I managed to do a couple of times when looking at the 2011.

We are giving up gas milage and room, but getting quicker 0-60 times and a little better manuverablilty, and with the 7yr/100k warranty the reliability is a wash, or from what we experienced will actually be better.

I was done with Honda but had deferred to the wife as we split driving the kids (the flexibility of the Oddy is unparalelled) after the following issues:
2004TL:
1. Repainted 3 times due to dirt in paint and rubbing bumper cover. Car out of service for 63 days in first six months.
2. Shift problems 2-3 gear never fixed and getting worse
3. 2 sets of tires and rims in first 6 months due to flat spotting and rim issues
4. Cracked dash issue common to car but told by Acura to be infrequent problem. Out of pocket costs after sending two nasty letters and threat of class action 400.00
5. Replacement of window regulator and track even though regulator had been 'reprogrammed' and then replaced once under warranty 600.00
Compressor replaced under warranty; was told it was belt whine until it locked up.
6. Power steering rack replaced 1300.00 no help from Acura
7. 3 bluetooth and hands free computers replaced; hands free recognition never any good but Oddy never has had an issue.
8. Driver's side power mirror will not return out of reverse mode, do not want to spend the money to fix now.
9. Headliner rattle since day one, after four repairs still sags at sunroof and rattles from time to time.
2008 Oddy Touring:
1. Service writer quits dealer who had ordered parts for sliding door TSB for torn weatherstripping around both doors so when we return we are told we are out of warranty by two months and under by 12k miles to pound sand. After telling Honda no more Honda purchases based on this and Acura problems we have to pay 400 out of 1200 repair.
2. Same time as above with display of nav screen not showing stations or xm information to pound sand and to pay 500.00 for R&R dispite TSB for condition.
3. B Pillar rattles same time as above - dealer ate costs as Honda said to pound sand,
3. Power steering pump replaced in first year, told never seen before. Just got letter telling me pump warranty extended to 100k because of issue we experienced.
4. Gas mileage, first Honda ever owned that didn't beat EPA MPG ratings; cannot even hit highway EPA number.
5. Cylinder deactivation, it can be felt and heard when the windows are down and saps power from the engine. Very annoying jerks at highway speeds as it engages and disengages.

If it had not been for the servicing dealerships personnel, we would have not even considered another Honda or Acura, but we were more than pleased with the effort put forth by both the Acura and Honda folks who went more than out of their way to help resolve situations and negotiate on our behalf. (Including pitching in finacially) I told my wife I loved the service folks at both dealers, but was tired of having to always see them.

Given all of this, the Oddy just loses the value and reliabilty equation seeing it is not our only family hauler for all six of us. Time will tell if Honda makes any improvements between now and the next two years when we hit 50k miles on the current Oddy and replace.
CR-V9
Profile for CR-V9
Re: Honda Hurries to ReDo Civic    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-01-2011 18:17
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If you buy a controlling amount of shares you can get to tell them what to do. Not rich? Don't blame Ito.
I like Ito. I think Mendel is doing a good job, too.(i need a job. maybe one at Honda?)

I wonder what was it like. What was the French Revolution like? Khmer Rouge? Fire everybody and reboot the company? People's commitee? Only if the people's commitee can tell Honda what to do. It's a business company, though.
No, I'm nobody. What I say don't matter. Honda is not listening here. If they do, that is the problem!

Did I say I like Ito? I mean Mr. Ito.
 
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