CrystalFiveMT
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With just over 1,000 units for last year, please put it out of its misery already.
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adrianchew
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Agreed - just produce the ILX, TSX and TL.
Keeping the RL is stupidity, Acura just can't compete on the high-end anymore, they need to start over. Losing either the TSX or TL and keeping the RL is a mistake.
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hondafreak1981
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Honda will kill the TSX because:
Accord will get global.
Now the European Accord is the TSX, later the Accord is all the same so no more TSX.
The RL will get a Succesor (Legend in Japan)
with much sportier Look and much more Technologie,
so why not keeping it?
So ILX, TL and RL
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Lucien
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Actually last week autonews confirmed TSX will be replaced by (smaller) ILX and there will be a more pronounced size difference between ILX, TL and RL.
New RL will be shown in April. The RL hasn't been updated for a long time so I think these low sales are expected. But it certainly won't be easy to recapture interest.
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av911
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What's taking them so long? It's been 6+ years since their last FMC.
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integrator
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I like the idea to differentiate between the model's sizes more. I just wish they had renamed the new car "TSX"....(beside the point, I know).
Acura has so many problems, they cant axe everything that doesnt work at the same time or they would have very little product line to keep the dealers alive. Still...the RL is a terrible way to represent the company, and the only problem with saying "be patient" is that it took them forever to take real action... so most patience is worn already.
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MuGen7Modulo
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adrianchew wrote:
Agreed - just produce the ILX, TSX and TL.
Keeping the RL is stupidity, Acura just can't compete on the high-end anymore, they need to start over. Losing either the TSX or TL and keeping the RL is a mistake.
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Legend it's been in a slow mode since the last MMC, but will hit again hard and it's a "forever" model in the lineup.
Can't wait to see the new spacious interior!
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adrianchew
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The Legend is not wanted here - you can see that the RL has no market.
The TSX and TL actually sells in volume... killing one of the two is a BIG mistake. The TSX is the ONLY real competition to the Lexus ES series (FWD). The TL is like a GS fighter, and the ILX is more the IS250 equal.
The RL is like the LS competition. Keeping a low volume seller at the top tier price point makes little sense, might as well go for the volume sellers, so the ILX, TSX and TL makes sense. The problem with Acura and top tier pricing is that its at best, a 2nd class luxury player... unlike Lexus, so not enough people are willing to pony up for the big bucks car the RL is.
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integrator
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The problem with Acura is they keep looking at the Lexus product line for inspiration and product placement.
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Powered by Honda
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integrator wrote:
The problem with Acura is they keep looking at the Lexus product line for inspiration and product placement.
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Lexus is constantly looking at benz or was...now they are constantly looking at bmw.
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Mikeydred
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Powered by Honda wrote:
integrator wrote:
The problem with Acura is they keep looking at the Lexus product line for inspiration and product placement.
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Lexus is constantly looking at benz or was...now they are constantly looking at bmw.
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And that will be their demise, because BMW customers is not their demographic
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duncan
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adrianchew wrote:
The Legend is not wanted here - you can see that the RL has no market.
The TSX and TL actually sells in volume... killing one of the two is a BIG mistake. The TSX is the ONLY real competition to the Lexus ES series (FWD). The TL is like a GS fighter, and the ILX is more the IS250 equal.
The RL is like the LS competition. Keeping a low volume seller at the top tier price point makes little sense, might as well go for the volume sellers, so the ILX, TSX and TL makes sense. The problem with Acura and top tier pricing is that its at best, a 2nd class luxury player... unlike Lexus, so not enough people are willing to pony up for the big bucks car the RL is.
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I think that given the TL and TSX nameplates have better recognition and reception from the carbuyers in general than the RL, it would make more sense to indeed kill off the RL and keep the double T's. The TL should be upsized, upgraded and up-powered to make it wholly competitive with the lower trims of the 5 Series, A6, E Class, GS or the M35. And given how well the TSX has performed for Acura since its inception (even the Tourer), it would be daft to cancel this nameplate in favour of the unproven ILX, so why not keep the TSX as an exclusive Acura model and make the AHM Accord/JDM Inspire the global Accord instead?
As for the ILX, is it really necessary to have it as a sedan also? The 1 Series is sold as a hatch in Europe in addition to the coupe we have in NA; the B Class is also a hatch and so is the A3 (even though it'll be available as a sedan shortly). Lexus has just introduced the CT hybrid, which is also a hatch. All these cars should be the ILX's most direct comparables, so as I've suggested many many times before, the Euro 5-dr Civic hatch should be brought over as the sub-TSX car.
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integrator
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What's worse: To be lost or to knowingly follow the lost? I would consider Lexus a rival, but they have enough problems not to consider them a benchmark... no matter who they constantly look toward. Proof's in the pudding. BMW has been very successful building a brand. Lexus hasn't. Acura is still having an identity crisis, which is the result of poor management.
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lexusgs
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That is horrible advice to just kill off the RL. That is not a business plan, that is an admission of failure. Acura has had a flagship sedan since its inception. Killing off the RL will make the Acura lineup even more bare and less upscale. You also can't take what used to be your entry level sedan Vigor/TL and turn it in to your flagship. People who buy TL's do not expect to pay high flagship prices for it or for it to be positioned too high and they most likely won't want to step down to a TSX or ILX if they can't afford a TL.
Acura should and needs to seriously update the RL and make it something the market is interested in again like with the original and 2nd Gen Legend. Making a great flagship sedan is what Acura needs to do, not just giving up again and throwing in the towel. The new RL or Legend needs to be something positioned between a 5 and 7 series or between a GS and LS. A TL cannot be asked to compete with a Lexus ES/IS/GS/LS, 3 series/5 series/7series, A4/A6, etc. It is too much. There needs to be something above a TL especially if the TL is supposed to get a little smaller next generation.
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dominik331
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RL 2011 worst-selling vehicle ZDX #4
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nash24
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um could it be that acura was going worldwide, a new v10 supercar that wasnt going to be called an nsx, the RL was rumoured to be rwd and v8, with these two acura was targeting tier 1, then the world markets turned to sh*t, the v10 got canned along with acura going worldwide and the RL had to be rethought, and now acura going for smart luxury, thats how i remember it.
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HondaChuck
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In what ways is the 2012 RL tech superior to the 2012 TL SHAWD advance?
Answering my own question...it might be quieter.
What else?
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MuGen7Modulo
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HondaChuck wrote:
In what ways is the 2012 RL tech superior to the 2012 TL SHAWD advance?
Answering my own question...it might be quieter.
What else?
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Way better. Why? Made in Japan!
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lexusgs
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HondaChuck wrote:
In what ways is the 2012 RL tech superior to the 2012 TL SHAWD advance?
Answering my own question...it might be quieter.
What else?
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The RL is better made, has higher quality interior materials, has more attention to detail, hand sanded paint finish, more advanced engine technology(though it does not improve hp or perf) more advanced SH-AWD, more luxury features(cooled seats, power adjusting steering wheel, power rear shade, real wood trim, etc).
The RL is still a more luxurious car overall then the TL with more attention to detail and finer materials and some luxury features not available in a TL.
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adrianchew
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lexusgs wrote:
The RL is still a more luxurious car overall then the TL with more attention to detail and finer materials and some luxury features not available in a TL.
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And thus it has luxury and a price tag to match, at a level that people aren't willing to settle for in just a mere "Acura". There's no market for a super luxury Acura, the numbers says it all. Face the fact, Acura is not top tier luxury, so the RL just can't sell in the US market. Stick a fork in it already!
In different words, Acura is a mere Coach, and trying to sell a handbag priced like a Louis Vuitton just doesn't work. For that to happen, Acura really needs to build on its identity and branding first.
Instead, they'll kill the TSX, which sells in good numbers today. Its like Coach killing off one of their basic lines of handbags that sells well, in hopes of selling LV priced ones? What kind of a stupid strategy is that? This goes to show that there is NONE for Acura, they're just trying to plug in models from other markets, Acura is still very much badge engineering.
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lexusgs
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adrianchew wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
The RL is still a more luxurious car overall then the TL with more attention to detail and finer materials and some luxury features not available in a TL.
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And thus it has luxury and a price tag to match, at a level that people aren't willing to settle for in just a mere "Acura". There's no market for a super luxury Acura, the numbers says it all. Face the fact, Acura is not top tier luxury, so the RL just can't sell in the US market. Stick a fork in it already!
In different words, Acura is a mere Coach, and trying to sell a handbag priced like a Louis Vuitton just doesn't work. For that to happen, Acura really needs to build on its identity and branding first.
Instead, they'll kill the TSX, which sells in good numbers today. Its like Coach killing off one of their basic lines of handbags that sells well, in hopes of selling LV priced ones? What kind of a stupid strategy is that? This goes to show that there is NONE for Acura, they're just trying to plug in models from other markets, Acura is still very much badge engineering.
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The reason the RL does not sell is because it has been barely updated and is too long in the tooth. When the RL first came out in 2006 it sold well and then tapered off, after the beak was added and it looked more like a Accord sales went into the tank because of styling, no real hp increases, and nothing much new added to it. Acura needs something above the TL and not just keep giving up on things. I don't think the TSX should go either but a RL or car above the TL has much more history in the Acura lineup.
The current Lexus GS has sold very poorly in its last few years too, that does not mean Lexus should just give up on it. Same with Audi A6's and A8's.
That giving up/throwing in the towel mentality is largely to blame for many of Acura's woes now.
People will and do buy higher priced Acuras if they are up to date competitive. People buy plenty of $45K+ MDXs, NSXs had pretty good sales considering its price, and people bought plenty of Legends and RLs in their first years.
Acura has simply let the RL stagnate in their lineup like they did with the S2000 and NSX and the results are obvious. They don't need to kill stagnated cars, they need to update them and give them new generations.
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adrianchew
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lexusgs wrote:
They don't need to kill stagnated cars, they need to update them and give them new generations.
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Well Honda has a history with killing stagnated cars... the RSX shouldn't have been killed, nor the S2000, nor the NSX, nor the Prelude, nor the Element. Keep the RL if they must, but don't kill the TSX, that's just killing off yet another nameplate that actually sells.
Any way you look at it - they haven't got a clue what they're doing with Acura, just trying to see what cars they have that can be upscaled/Acura branded/badged for US sale. Oh I guess, you get that ugly plenum too, that's about the only unique thing that defines Acura. The 3rd gen TL was so popular you'd think with SH-AWD they'd have been able to take the 4th gen places, but that plenum killed them big time. Imagine they once sold twice the number of TLs a year back in the days of the 3rd gen!
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TSX69
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Is cars.com a reliable resource for national inventory? I have read other forums using it as such so just curious.
If so, it says that there are 97 RLs currently nationwide (only about twice as much for the ZDX btw). Not saying that the RL would be a hit if there were more available, but I would think that it would sell more than it has recently. Remember, before the natural disasters it was actually on a streak of consecutive months of increased sales (due to the 2nd MMC?).
Hopefully the 3rd generation will do better.
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CarPhreakD
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av911 wrote:
What's taking them so long? It's been 6+ years since their last FMC.
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The main thing is that you don't want to get out of one deal, only to end up with another. And with the identity crisis and re-imagining of the Acura brand (twice since the RL was born), this probably isn't a bad thing that the RL soldiered on as it did... It looks like Acura will unveil a new RL this year, and this time, it will feature eSH-AWD, along with other features that Acura is attempting to go for in its new reboot.
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