Grace141
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It's an interesting observation in that article about Hyundai being hampered by lack of production. They can't just build a new plant only to operate it at 20% capacity or some such percentage for reasonable growth in sales. With Hyundai maxed out and the Big 2+Fiat playing above their heads at the moment the next year or two could be very good for Honda as well as Toyota and Nissan in the US.
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longhorn
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TSX69 wrote:
Honda's Ito sees profit surge in year of 'complete rebound'
Ito ruled out any major overhaul of the Civic after the current version of the sedan, which failed to receive the "recommended" status its predecessors had from Consumer Reports magazine, was the best-selling model in the compact-car segment in
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Not surprising,he is right,the Civic 'as is' is the number one selling make in its class. I still believe it will get a mechanical make over, ED motors, CVT,and better quality plastics in the interior. Would not be surprised if they left the exterior alone till the regular MMC. Not to mention it would devastate first year Civic resale values.
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typer_801
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That makes sense nothing major would be done. Shape is bland, but unobjectionable...typical Honda. The real complaints were interior materials quality, lost 'fun-to-drive' element, and well performing, but dated powertrain primarily the 5AT.
You add ED engines/CVT, spruce up the plastics/door panels, play with the suspension tuning, improve steering feedback and it's near class leading again.
If they went a little further (new dash) or less extreme, more ICE (i.e. Aha radio) it's a big hit.
longhorn wrote:
TSX69 wrote:
Honda's Ito sees profit surge in year of 'complete rebound'
Ito ruled out any major overhaul of the Civic after the current version of the sedan, which failed to receive the "recommended" status its predecessors had from Consumer Reports magazine, was the best-selling model in the compact-car segment in
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Not surprising,he is right,the Civic 'as is' is the number one selling make in its class. I still believe it will get a mechanical make over, ED motors, CVT,and better quality plastics in the interior. Would not be surprised if they left the exterior alone till the regular MMC. Not to mention it would devastate first year Civic resale values.
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DCR
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Ito is a little short-sighted here, but that isn't anything new.
Let's get through a full, no excuses year here in 2012, and then we will see if he is correct.
However, I will say that Honda PR needs to get the story straight on what they are planning to do. It went from "screw the world, the Civic is great", to "Ok, it sucks, we admit it and will fix it" and now we are back to "It is awesome, screw you."
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Kongming
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Definitely agree. I saw that article too and was like.. what the.
Ito is just coming off as arrogant.
If Hyundai/Ford fixes their reliability issues, Honda is in trouble with this kind of mindset.
I was in the market for a small car and wanted to buy a Civic until I climbed in and saw/felt the interior. Why should I buy a car thats been cheapened and that's worse than the last generation?
Not to mention the exterior got worse as well. (altho looks are subjective)
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garoto628
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The interior of the new civic is a completet flop!!
The roof lining is worse than the carton material used to pack eggs at grocery stores.
The door panels are hard and thin plastic (thin because they flex, and hard to the touch!)
The cup holders do not hold the cups.
The dash is just this huge massive toys-r-us material. It just at least have some soft-feel to the touch.
The seats are okay.
I didn't care to look at the carpet, but I bet its crap.
I hate the non-sliding center armrest/compartment.
I dislike the miniature center-console shifter-area compartments.
I think other than that, the car is okay. Alright, stiffen the suspension a bit and quicken the steering bit.
What the hell, can they just remake the 8th gen?
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Gfn8r
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Was just at the auto show today and sat in a Civic LX 4-door.
I had sat in a Civic EX Coupe at the dealer while waiting for my '06 Accord EXL-V6 to be done with an oil change, and was chatting with the salesman. We discussed the (lack of) interior quality, and came to the conclusion that it is what they made it. Yes, the interior quality sucks! No question! The headliner is crap, the dash is no worse than the acres of hard plastic in the 8th-gen. The seats in the EX were better than the LX (which has always been the case, since it seems that the denser, "mouse fur" material in the LXs wouldn't hold up as well, but I could be wrong).
However, I assure you that you don't want to check out the carpet!! The carpet in the back seat of the Fit (and the material ** lining the trunk of my Accord (and the 8th-gen Accords) ** is of better quality than the carpet found in that LX. (I didn't pay attention to the carpet when I was at the dealer because I was too busy examining everything else.) They had the all-season mats in every auto-show vehicle on display, and that (or a WeatherTech Floor Liner) would be my recommendation if someone had to buy a Civic before Honda cleans it up.
We know you can do better Honda!! Step it up! Folks who know better would pay a little extra to get the interior quality found in the 1992-1995 Civics: my Torino Red '94 EX had durable cloth everywhere, reasonably thick carpet (including an embroidered "Civic" logo on the floormats) and fantastic ergonomics!! How much would improved materials cost? $15 per car? Raise the price of the car by $100 and you're looking at a decent profit over three or four hundred-thousand units!
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atomiclightbulb
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longhorn wrote:
TSX69 wrote:
Honda's Ito sees profit surge in year of 'complete rebound'
Ito ruled out any major overhaul of the Civic after the current version of the sedan, which failed to receive the "recommended" status its predecessors had from Consumer Reports magazine, was the best-selling model in the compact-car segment in
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Not surprising,he is right,the Civic 'as is' is the number one selling make in its class. I still believe it will get a mechanical make over, ED motors, CVT,and better quality plastics in the interior. Would not be surprised if they left the exterior alone till the regular MMC. Not to mention it would devastate first year Civic resale values.
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Ito's statement doesn't surprise me, and I think it makes sense.
For those customers who want a Civic-sized vehicle with the best interior quality and features, Honda will have the Acura ILX. Customers who just want a basic commuter car will buy a Civic. I know a lot of people hate the 9G Civic, but the sales figures really are the final word. This car delivers.
I hope that Honda implements some minor changes to the interior though. They should make the plastic texturing more cohesive, and either restore the cupholder cover or get some kind of cover for the front pocket, like the Canadian CSX used to have. Having just 1 covered storage space beyond the standard glove box and center console bin makes a huge difference to me. The 7G Accord's center cubby is just incredibly useful for keeping stuff like cash, MP3 players, and GPS units within easy reach, but also out of sight.
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Fan Koni
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I agree, nothing major means: nothing unusual or something totally unplanned.
Nothing unusual: see last CRV MMC - materials, stereo, suspension tweaks, in some areas tires, bumpers. Very normal.
Already planned: ED drive trains.
Big question for me is still how long till MMC - see the Golf, FMC this year after only 4 years. The current version is more a MMC, very similar to the current civic.
typer_801 wrote:
That makes sense nothing major would be done. Shape is bland, but unobjectionable...typical Honda. The real complaints were interior materials quality, lost 'fun-to-drive' element, and well performing, but dated powertrain primarily the 5AT.
You add ED engines/CVT, spruce up the plastics/door panels, play with the suspension tuning, improve steering feedback and it's near class leading again.
If they went a little further (new dash) or less extreme, more ICE (i.e. Aha radio) it's a big hit.
longhorn wrote:
TSX69 wrote:
Honda's Ito sees profit surge in year of 'complete rebound'
Ito ruled out any major overhaul of the Civic after the current version of the sedan, which failed to receive the "recommended" status its predecessors had from Consumer Reports magazine, was the best-selling model in the compact-car segment in
|
Not surprising,he is right,the Civic 'as is' is the number one selling make in its class. I still believe it will get a mechanical make over, ED motors, CVT,and better quality plastics in the interior. Would not be surprised if they left the exterior alone till the regular MMC. Not to mention it would devastate first year Civic resale values.
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Potenza
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The exterior of the Civic I find very acceptable. In fact it's only the front grille of the sedan that I think makes it look awful. A simple black mesh upper grille would go a long way. The coupe needs a new front bumper cover with a more cohesive upper-grille, lower-grille combination.
Most agree it's the interior that needs work, and I believe it will get some attention. I just sat in a new Insight yesterday, and I was blown away by the interior - Honda's upgrades there (again in response to criticism) were very noticeable and well done. They would do well to copy that quality of upgrade to its Civic line.
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rev2damoon
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I remember the beating Honda took for the Insight's interior. What I find especially startling is the fact that they've repeated this mistake with the 9th gen Civic interior. It just smacks of arrogance and stubborness. What happened with the 12' Civic interior should NEVER have happened.
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hiropon
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for some reason our bumpers always seem to look better http://topcar.co.za/sites/default/files/publish/rot_17.jpg
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DCR
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I would point to crash regulations for that. Here in the US, apparently we run over babies and drunks enough to require full on bumper redesigns.
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Potenza
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hiropon wrote:
for some reason our bumpers always seem to look better
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NealX
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Potenza wrote:
hiropon wrote:
for some reason our bumpers always seem to look better
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^ That works for me. And black out the headlights like they do on the Fit.
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Carmissimo
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Seems to me that if upgrading the interior and using front and rear styling cues that are sportier is what is needed to fix most of the complaints, this is an easy fix, all things considered.
Combine those with a few improvements to the chassis and you've got a Civic that would likely earn a recommended rating from Consumer Reports.
There would be a downside in that the price would have to go up somewhat but if we're talking maybe $350 to $500, few consumers are going to balk at that sort of money.
I have never understood the logic of saving several hundred dollars and as a result winding up with a tangibly inferior car. When you spread $500 out over a 48-month term, it's $10.42 before interest. Certainly well below $12 even with. It's important to remember that when a manufacturer engineers $500 out of a car, it's a far more substantial change than if one were thinking in terms of $500 worth of content from a consumer's perspective. The overall end result is a substantially cheaper fell all around.
When Ito considers that the economy is weak, he has to remember that the Civic would, for some, be a possible step down from an Accord and the goal should be to make the step down as painless as possible. This would mean upgrading the Civic, not taking it further down market.
In addition, let's not consider that this was an attempt to put more distance between the Civic and the new Acura ILX. The ILX will not feature Honda's two-tier dash and will have a somewhat different visual profile with more hood thanks to a less dramatically slanted windshield. I doubt Honda is worried that the Civic and ILX will be mistaken for each other, no matter what styling cues the Civic shifts to. This is because the fundamental shape will be different enough to produce a rather different feel, regardless of the details.
It is unfortunate that Honda messed up as it did but this is not a fatal scenario. Recontent the interior, incrementally improve overall performance, give the exterior a sportier look, even at the expense of a modest leap in MSRP, do all of that and the Civic will stack up well. Let's not forget that in terms of overall reliability, the Civic's reputation, at least so far, is intact.
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DCR
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Blame i-Mid.
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Kongming
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Is it just me or does that look the same as Civic we have but shot at a flattering angle? The grille looks the same as the ugly one on the N. American model.
- They need to change the grille and the front bumper and definitely change the rear bumper as it looks way too bulbous and weirdly shaped. Taillights look like Dodge Neon/Camry.
The 8thgen looked futuristic and sleek and classy... go back to that same vein of design.
-Interior wise, match the colors properly, with less varieties of plastic so it don't look so incoherent and ugly. Use soft touch on certain areas.
- Radio looks ugly. Turning center stack towards the driver is a good idea, but execution was poor and it looks half done.
- Door panels quite cheap and unsubstantial feeling as well.
- Re-tune the suspension and steering to 8th gen standard or even better if possible.
Adding new ED engines/CVT and 4 wheel disk brakes standard as well would make it perfect/push it over the top but I doubt they'll do that.
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DCR
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It is similiar, but the subtle differences like a clear headlight housing, side markers and lower and upper grill differences appear to make a world of difference.
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hiropon
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yes additionally it doesn't have those horrible glue on faux intake surrounds. Maybe they are there to eak out those last few drops to hit mpg figures in the states. It also has that sliding cover on over the cupholders! check it out http://www.honda.co.za/main.aspx?cid=1&sid=14&id=22
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A77
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Argghhh....cup holder cover and manual tranny with leather!
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Potenza
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hiropon wrote:
yes additionally it doesn't have those horrible glue on faux intake surrounds. Maybe they are there to eak out those last few drops to hit mpg figures in the states. It also has that sliding cover on over the cupholders! check it out http://www.honda.co.za/main.aspx?cid=1&sid=14&id=22
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Yes, this version is much nicer. Fog lights nicely integrated:
Projector headlights:
Covered cup holders:
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JeffreynLA
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The projector headlights do wonders for the front end. I would also like to see how a thin chrome strip around the windows/doors looks, at least on the EX models.
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DCR
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The radio design still amazes me. I don't see how they could have possibly signed off on that design.
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owequitit
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Potenza wrote:
hiropon wrote:
for some reason our bumpers always seem to look better
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That IMO, solves pretty much ALL of the Civic's styling issues. That and the more upscale looking interior shown above. I am not as demanding of a cupholder cover (just got done scrubbing leaked soda from mine), but it would be nice if the cupholders held stuff a little more substantially. I also don't remember seeing that metal trim piece on the door panel of the USDM Civic, and IMO that also helps to break up the bland expanse of the door panel. I also like the metalloid look of it as found in the CR-Z which actually looks really cool, and has none of the spray paint look of the stuff in the 8th gen Civic.
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Kongming
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Here's the Civic they sell in China.
Grill looks cleaner with the mesh but there's still room for improvement, same with the bumper.
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Tigerriot
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So when do we expect to hear about changes to the 2013 model? How soon will they be on deal lots? The current model was out in April last year.
After Ito's new comments, does anyone think they might not make any tweaks at all to the 2013 model?
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hondadude
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Here's the latest from Automotive News being reported from the NADA convention in Las Vegas.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120205/RETAIL06/120209878/1379
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BlackSeries
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This Sept..cool!
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according2kev
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hondadude wrote:
Here's the latest from Automotive News being reported from the NADA convention in Las Vegas.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120205/RETAIL06/120209878/1379
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Thanks for the link!
I'm not sure what to believe because this goes against an article posted recently that says Ito ruled out major overhaul of the Civic. I tried posting an active link but when testing it the site said "for paid suscribers only". Maybe he changed his mind at the last minute? I sure hope so.
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