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5-Honda-Man
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In my opinion, cars designed from square one as performance cars are more satisfying to drive than cars that are designed for other tasks (commuting) that have been "massaged" to be performance cars, whether massaged by owner-enthusiasts or pro builders. Let that same pro massage the performance machine, and that's when the real fun begins.
Were I Honda I'd drop the pretense of the Civic as a performance chassis and instead come up with something halo-ish and purpose-built for play, to blunt the impact the BRZ/FR-S is going to have on the marketplace. With freedom from the all things for all commuters platform, designers can extract much more from a model.
If the ingredients you're given are hamburger, cheese and bread, it's easier and more effective to make a cheeseburger from them than filet mignon with peppercorn sauce. Honda's problem on the enthusiast front isn't that the Civic has become a barge. Honda's problem is that it lacks money-losing, low volume, performance-built halo cars. Even money losing companies like Nissan and Mazda manage to nonetheless field dedicated sporting models. It would be a drop in the bucket for Honda to spring a small, light RWD platform on us, sell 5000 of them per year and lose $5k per unit.
As for the 8th generation Civic and GS-R, they were noisy and rode like relative crap from a 90-mile each way commuter perspective. The new Civic is softer and quieter (including the Si) and makes a better commuter car as a result. Accordingly, to the extent that past Civic-based enthusiast models were noisier and busier than the current one, they were comparatively "compromised" as commuter vehicles.
Substance, in commuter terms, is reliability, durability, comfort, quiet and fuel efficiency. Quicker steering and a bigger engine would be fine so long as none of the other "commuter" virtues are compromised. Problem is, that caveat typically sets up a compromise where you must trade parts of one or more of the virtues to gain the extra performance. Something about cake and eating it too comes to mind.
Also dedicated performance models need not be expensive, as vehicles like the Miata, FR-S and BRZ demonstrate. In fact, if you can suffer FWD, the CR-Z is a stiff little tub. With a non-Hybrid engine, it could be an FR-S fighter.
It cuts both ways. The CR-Z as a hybrid is just as much of an unnatural act as a Civic wanting to be an S2000. Rather than slamming Honda for making it's premiere commuter car more commuter friendly at the expense of reduced agility, let's get out the pitchforks and torches and march on the CR-Z.
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superchg2
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5-Honda-Man wrote:
Were I Honda I'd drop the pretense of the Civic as a performance chassis and instead come up with something halo-ish and purpose-built for play, to blunt the impact the BRZ/FR-S is going to have on the marketplace. With freedom from the all things for all commuters platform, designers can extract much more from a model.
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If Honda did drop this so-called pretense, I'm afraid we would end up with no enthusiast related cars at all, in the short term!
Of course, the next-gen NSX is under development for a few of us Honda enthusiasts with $100K+ to spend, somewhere around 2016.
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confente
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5-Honda-Man wrote:
In my opinion, cars designed from square one as performance cars are more satisfying to drive than cars that are designed for other tasks (commuting) that have been "massaged" to be performance cars, whether massaged by owner-enthusiasts or pro builders. Let that same pro massage the performance machine, and that's when the real fun begins.
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I don't want to own multiple cars... I need one car that does it all and my '09 four door Si is all the car I need for fun and utility. I'd never own a NSX even though I'd love to drive one!
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rev2damoon
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As a frequent roadtrip taker, my 8th gen Si has been quite "exceptional" as a commuter vehicle. Not only can I score mid thirties in MPG's, but the ride is quite comfortable and the noise level is quite tolerable for a more focused and performance-oriented model.;-)
She has two 2400 mile round trips and more under her belt, and getting around town comfortably is a non issue.:-)
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5-Honda-Man
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Yep. I don't think the NSX is a very good solution for the other 99% of us who like to drive fast. Mazda has its Miata. Toyota and Subaru have collaborated on their new RWD coupe. I'd love to see Honda fulfill the CR-Z promise with a performance version of that vehicle, or better still, intro a new RWD performance vehicle in that $20k to $30k range.
But I do wish Honda, at a minimum, would put a non-Hybrid turbo in the CR-Z for the North American market. That shouldn't be very costly at all, really, in R&D terms, and could tide Honda over while it re-harmonizes its portfolio of models.
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confente
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5-Honda-Man wrote:
I'd love to see Honda fulfill the CR-Z promise with a performance version of that vehicle...
a non-Hybrid turbo in the CR-Z for the North American market.
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You were arguing for a stand alone performance vehicle from Honda, you put down the 8th gen Si, and now you want a performance version of the CR-Z? Huh? Very confusing...
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